Values that the Wealthy Talk About at the Thanksgiving Table

Let's talk about some values that could be smart to talk about at the Thanksgiving table. From how you view money to how much you care about achievements, these conversations could be the start of learning more about what you actually care about.

Resources:

- Alliance of Comprehensive Planners: https://www.acplanners.org

- John's firm website: https://www.trinfin.com

- Find us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/friendstalkfinancialplanning

TRANSCRIPT:

John: Hi, I'm John Scherer, and I run a fee only financial planning practice in Middleton, Wisconsin.

Bridget: And I'm Bridget Sullivan Mermel. I run a fee-only financial planning practice in Chicago, Illinois. Before we talk about more meaningful Thanksgiving conversations, why don't you hit subscribe? It helps other people find us on this station. All right, John, so I want to talk about discussing values at the dinner table, especially the Thanksgiving dinner table.

Because first of all, talking about values gets people into a little deeper conversation, and people generally enjoy the conversation. So once you get into the conversation, it’s something that makes people feel good just to talk about their values, just to be reminded of them.

John: Yeah, I think that's such a great thing. As we think about gathering for a holiday meal, especially at Thanksgiving, it’s in the word—what are we thankful for? I think a lot of us probably have these conversations or maybe do some sharing around the table. It's just really interesting, and I love how you make this such a part of your professional work, Bridget.

When you think about, what are you thankful for? in some fashion that relates to what you value and maybe how you grew up, maybe what your family values and how it has affected you and to really take a step deeper. I think it's a great idea for viewers to take this to their Thanksgiving dinner table and dig into a little bit more into not just what you're thankful for but what are your values and really explore that.

Because it's one of those things that unless you think about it, for me anyway, it's just not a natural thing, and it's not top of my mind. But you start to get into it, it's kind of fun to talk about and kind of interesting. And from a family standpoint, I'll just say, and friends as well, you really make deeper connections when you have these sorts of conversations. So I'm excited. I know you've got some tools that you use and just looking forward to the conversation.

Bridget: Yeah. So what are we looking for when we talk about values? First of all, we're talking about motivating ideals. That's how it's defined. But to me I think of it as more me. What is really me and what can I not get rid of even if I try? That's kind of my value. We've got a list. So the researcher who is renowned for doing values work is Shalom Schwartz. He spent decades testing people in different cultures to help define which values are really seen in all different universal cultures.

And last time I checked, he tested this in over 165 different cultures to see which values are consistent. And he came out with this graph of 10 basic categories. And then there's another test that gives you 57 nuances of the different categories. So when we're looking at this, what we want to do is say what jumps out to me? If you look at the 57, it's maybe a little easier, but even when you look at the 10, it's pretty easy to say, “All right, what do I do?”

Although there's a couple that need explanation. Let me just talk about them briefly. Self-direction, that's like creativity and wanting to be on my own. Universalism, that's more about the environment, appreciating beauty and art. Benevolence, that's kind, giving, valuing honesty, Conformity, that means respecting your elders.

Tradition, I think people understand what tradition is. Security, that can be personal security, that can be cleanliness, that can be financial security, that can be family security. Power, universally the lowest rated, least respected value, but we need it for our society. So it might be hard for somebody to choose it. You might have to tell somebody they like power rather than having them choose it.

John: Yeah.

Bridget: Because it doesn't seem that polite. Achievement, I think we're a very achievement-oriented society, so I think people understand that. Hedonism, again, this is a no, no in our society, but one of my clients said, “Oh, that's enjoying life.” And this client said, “I'm supposed to enjoy life. That's what life is for.” And so that's the way I look at hedonism.

Stimulation, that's people who jump out of planes and stuff; they just like a lot of stimulation.

All right, so that's our circle. So just thinking about those broad categories and where you fit in and what's me. One time I talked to somebody, and I told her how much I admired how benevolent she was, and she said “That's just me. I don't try.” And I was thought, “That's interesting.” I would say that category for me is creativity and self-direction, that's just me. I don't try. I have to try not to be that way. What are your thoughts?

John: I appreciate the sort of brief background. Some of these words can mean different things, so it’s very helpful to say, hey, what are we talking about here? And what struck me, as you're describing those, Bridget, is that words can have very powerful implications that might have nothing to do with what the actual word means or describes. When you said power, I thought, “That's not well-regarded. That seems like maybe not necessarily the bad guy, but that's not a great value.” That was my feeling.

But wait a minute, we better have people that want to have power and be in charge of things and lead society. Let's try to detach the feelings that go with these things. And hedonism, that's an interesting word. I don’t know how I feel about that. But enjoying life. Okay, good. That makes me feel a little bit better. But it's not like it's right or wrong with things. It reminds me of when we work with clients and they're money aggressive, maybe greedy is a word for that. And it's not like it's a bad thing. It's good to have money. It’s far better than the alternative.

And money fearful. That's not a good or a bad thing. It's just how I filter the world. And that's what I heard in this, and I definitely had some different emotions about the words that you said. And I think you described this is who I am. Right? Oh, no, this is how I look at the world. That doesn't mean that I should have more benevolence or more power or anything. But it's my filter. Those are those values, which is why I think this is such an interesting discussion.

Bridget: Yeah, and I think that you can. There’re plenty of values that I think most people go through their life medium on. And the other thing is that all values sound good, especially when we explain things like power and hedonism. So it can be hard to sort out because I'll say, “Oh, I want achievement.” And actually, I've been going through an achievement period of my life, but it’s kind of situational. If I'm in the situation, then I like achievement, but I don't try to achieve things when I'm on vacation, for instance.

I will try to be creative when I'm on vacation. So that's another thing to think about. What do you do for fun? Do you do something creative? Do you do something scientific? How do you approach the world? I think another, interesting topic might be what have you done lately? How do you work this into your life? How does this play out in your life? Because if you actually have a goal plus a value that brings you meaning. And so, you might say, “Well, I like to give to people. And so, I had a family and now I give to them. And that's very meaningful.”

John: One of the things I was just thinking about while looking at this graph is that there are some things that are opposite or at least in tension with each other. For example, hedonism, enjoying life versus being benevolent to other people. Maybe there's some tension there. And it just strikes me that probably there are some folks that are all in kind of one area of the circle.

And I probably fit into the group where there are some things on opposite ends of the spectrum that are similarly important for me. That's okay, right? It's not about what's wrong. You can hold two thoughts in your mind at the same time, or two feelings. It's not like it's right or wrong. Maybe I have a sense of conflict in certain things because of that sort of tension.

Bridget: And you can have tension with different people, too. One of the major Schwartz findings is that on the opposite side of the circle, there's some natural tension there. And so, you brought up hedonism. And the opposite side of that is tradition. And if you think of world religions, most of them are trying to rein in hedonism, so there's just natural tension there. Not to say that nobody in the religion can enjoy their life because people would probably quickly leave religion if they weren't enjoying their life.

And another one that comes up in finances a lot is there’re people who value security plus self-direction. They're creative people who also value security or even benevolence and value security. So that's hard because I want to give all my money away or I want to be creative and not structured, but I don't want to be broke. I don't want to be a starving artist. The starving artist is a good example of an archetype of somebody who’s just in that creative part and doesn't have any of the security part. But most people I've met are not like that, or they don't aspire to be.

John: One of the things that you mentioned before we hit record was how to apply this. I'm thinking about being around the dinner table. What do you do with this? It's an interesting discussion, but then basically what you do is you grade how important each of these things are to you. Zero is the opposite of what I believe in.

And then 10 is the opposite. So on other end of the scale, this is core to who I am. And maybe that's something you can use. You can hand out a one or a two-page thing or even a note card and have people think for a few minutes about where they fit in there. And it could spur some interesting discussions around the Thanksgiving table.

Bridget: Yeah, and what you want to do. You can talk about the future too, because again, a value plus a goal equals meaning.  This resonates with meaning, and it's a great time to do it at Thanksgiving when you're trying to reflect. If people are interested in this handout, contact me. I will put my contact information in the notes. Email me, and we'll send it out to you. Happy to. And with that. I'm Bridget Sullivan Mermel. I've got a fee-only financial planning practice in Chicago, Illinois.

John: And I'm John Scherer. I've got a fee-only financial planning practice in Middleton, Wisconsin. Bridget and I are both taking on clients. We'd love to hear from you, but we're also both members of the Alliance of Comprehensive Planners. So if you like what you hear on our show and would like to find a planner who thinks similarly to us but is in your area, please check out acplanners.org.

Bridget: And don't forget to subscribe.

At Sullivan Mermel, Inc., we are fee-only financial planners located in Chicago, Illinois serving clients in Chicago and throughout the nation.  We meet both in-person in our Chicago office and virtually through video conferencing and secure file transfer.